Ulil Abshar-Abdalla: I Try to Be Like Al-Tahtawi

Three months ago Ulil Abshar-Abdalla, a controversial central figure of Liberal Islam Network (JIL), left Indonesia. He came back when his father, KH. Abdullah Rifa’I, passed away in the middle of December. “Yet, I still want to prolong my stay there till I complete my book,” Ulil said. He was invited by the University of Michigan to be a guest lecturer on the subject of “contemporary Islamic thought in Indonesia”.

After delivering a lecture there, Ulil stayed at Ohio University in Athens. Ulil wished to materialize his obsession: writing a book. This book is his whole interpretation of Alquran and general Islamic teaching from the liberal Islam perspective. In this interview with Hamid Basyaib from Liberal Islam Network, on Thursday 8^th of January 2003, he spoke about how this book explains his controversial thoughts in contrast to his previously published book which reprinted his earlier published articles. 

HAMID BASYAIB (HAMID): Mr Ulil, I want to know what the student’s response was when you delivered your lecture?

ULIL ABSHAR-ABDALLA (ULIL): Very good. We have known that debate or discussion on Islam is currently very interesting in America. We can say it is a sexy topic. Everywhere people always ask about Islam. You should know that Michigan University is a site where many people are anti George W. Bush and support the Democratic Part, have a left-progressive vision and are against the Iraq war. Most of them are critical and have a great deal of sympathy toward Islam. 

HAMID: What is the most frequent question delivered to you as a Muslim and thinker from a controversial country which has the biggest Muslim population in the world?

ULIL: There are two impressive matters while I was teaching there. Firstly, everyone following my lecture seemed to be psychologically ready to accept my lecture. They had a mindset that Islam is misunderstood in America. They understand it. Hence, they should learn from Islam itself. Furthermore, they want to find out about the South East Asian version of Islam, especially Indonesian. So, they came with sympathy, with the perception that Islam is a religion oppressed by the American public, therefore they invited me to deliver first hand information to the public there.

Secondly, several people did not understand why there is radicalism in Islam. This question is raised by Fareed Zakaria in a special edition of Newsweek under the title: Why do they hate us? Answering such a question is not easy.

HAMID: You mentioned that they are eager to know about a South East Asian version of Islam especially Indonesia. Did they know much about Arabic or Middle Eastern version of Islam?

ULIL: One should realize that exposure or information regarding Islam outside of the Arab context is very limited, since the population of Arab Muslims in America is large. The first mosque established in America was in the 19^th century in Iowa and was established by a Syrian. Indeed, a small city Dearborn in Michigan is the center for Arab culture there. There is a big mosque. Michigan is known as a state with the biggest Muslim population in America. So the meeting of Americans and Muslims is more represented by the Arab experience as it has been going on for two centuries.

HAMID: I heard that you are writing a book as well, aren’t you?

ULIL: Yes, actually I concentrate on research, reading, and writing the book. I hope it will be completed soon. To me, there’s no more beautiful thing in this life than reading, writing, and researching with sufficient material. I don’t know when this country will fulfill that. University libraries in America are amazing.

HAMID: What book you are writing about?

ULIL: I wrote a sort of interpretation method a la Liberal Islam, especially interpretation about Alqur’an. Of course not all the material is available, but some of it is. The conducive scientific environment is the most splendid thing there.

HAMID: Did you meet any trouble in Michigan and Ohio since there are few or even no experts on Islam there? And yet, you need a counter part for writing?

ULIL: Indeed, I didn’t find them there. But there is an expert of comparative religion with a focus on Hinduism. Because I feel that I have met a lot of counterparts already in Indonesia, there I found I only need a splendid place to write and read. Now the book is 60 percent complete.

HAMID: You have been known as a controversial Muslim thinker, and even been sentenced to death (by ulama). Is the book a continuation of your whole thinking? 

ULIL: I hope so. But it will be uninteresting and unsurprising if I disclose it now. Generally, an aspect I want to show the readers is that Alqur’an as a scripture is one among other scriptures. It’s not the only scripture in the world. I think it often forgotten by many people; that Alqur’an is one scripture among many scriptures.Moreover.revelation codified in Alqur’an is actually a revelation among revelations. Muslims can learn from those other sorts of revelations.

HAMID: What does it means?

ULIL: To me, almost all scriptures are miraculous. Muslims have been considering that the miracle is limited to Alqur’an. I truly believe that Alqur’an is a miracle and great. But to me, all scriptures are miracles.After reading comparative studies about other scripture, I found that almost all scripture is beautiful, miraculous and amazing. To me, Muslim should place their scripture in a wider frame of miracles.

HAMID: What about the claim about the authenticity of Alqur’an which is limited only to Alqur’an?

ULIL: We have to re-observe the concept and notion about the authenticity of scripture. To me, all scriptures are authentic and genuine. But we have to remember that scripture grows like plants. It means that there is no scripture born in the world and fully grown. Scripture is like a human; it experiences an infant, teenage, adult and elder phase. I don’t find a ready made human history. When we see Alqur’an, Torah, Veda, Bible, and Upanishad, all are growing scriptures. All are genuine and authentic scriptures; according to their religious teaching, but they change or grow according to the phases they pass through.

There was a view within the Muslim community that scriptures outside of Islam are distorted. But we have to revisit what is meant. Is it a distortion of content or substance of the Alqur’an, or of its implementation? Even Quranic implementation itself is distorted.

HAMID: In Quranic terminology it is named as tahrif.

ULIL: Yes. Tahrif. I think it gets very technical if we discuss it profoundly. Substantially, I think many Muslims have misunderstood the meaning of tahrif. They believe that the revelation process of Bible and Torah are similar to Alquran. But the bible is not like that since Jesus never received a revelation like the prophet Muhammad did. So, the concept of revelation in the Bible differs to that in the Alquran.

In the book, I want to emphasize that Muslims should understand the revelation concept in a different context. Revelation in Islam, in Christianity, in Judaism etc. all are revelations, with different contexts, and should be appraised in those contexts. So one should not appraise other revelations based on Islamic criterion. It is unfair.

HAMID: How should we understand the concept of revelation, for instance in Christianity?

ULIL: I don’t want to go into details about Christianity. Substantially, I found many beautiful, good and amazing things in all scriptures. I read the bible and enjoyed it. I like several parts of the New Testament like the sermon on the hill. In the Old Testament, everyone must surely like the hymn the song of Solomon a love story with a soft, subtle, and beautiful form. All scriptures are miracles in every aspect.

For example, consider the greatness of scriptures outside of the Alqur’an like the Vedas, the oldest scriptures from India. The Veda is a scripture which had never been written down for thousands of years. It is a scripture which is transmitted from one generation to the next through story telling. In scriptural studies that means through voice. It is an auditive scripture, told orally from one generation to the next. The scripture was written in the 19^th century by a European scholar named Friedrich Max Muller. He was not an Indian. He wrote and codified the Veda. It’s amazing that this scripture had never been written down and yet was never lost. Many things in oral tradition have been lost, but not the Vedas.

Therefore to me, Quranic verse innâ na

hnu nazzalnâ al-dzikrâ wa innnâ lahû lah

âfidzûn is valid for all scriptures, for the Bible and Upanishad as well. If you are a Hindu and the fans of Mahatma Gandhi, you can read his book about God. It is interesting since Gandhi conveyed a universal theological insight. All religion is equal; all scripture is great. Gandhi appreciated the Alqur’an, the Bible, and the Torah and so on.

HAMID: Maybe if more people respect religious diversity this world could be more peaceful?

ULIL: Ideally, we will find ourselves in a situation which is similar to a free market ofideas or free market of scriptures, of revelations, of religions.

HAMID: What do you want to conclude from your visit to America?

ULIL: Frankly speaking, I try to be like Rifa’ah Rafi’Al-Tahtawi, an Egyptian ulama (muslim scholar) sent to France on the 19th century by the government to be the leader of Egyptian students who studied in France. He wrote his impression about Paris in his famous book Tahlîsul Ibrîs fi Talkhîsil Bâris. The conclusion is that we can learn many positive things from others, whoever they are. In American life, I found things which are according to Islamic standard are very much Islamic, although many of them are far from Islamic values.